zMy conversation here is with Zen Master Bon Soeng, aka Jeff Kitzes. Jeff shares his personal history growing up in a Jewish family in the Sixties, his start in meditation (influenced by the Beatles), and his introduction to his spiritual teacher, Zen Master Seung Sahn of the Korean Kwan Um school of Zen. Given the name, Bon Soeng (original nature) he was initiated as a Zen Master and leads Empty Gate Zen Center with centers in Berkeley, CA, Boise, Idaho, and online. Jeff shares many of his views concerning the essential teachings of Zen, the role of psychedelics in spiritual practice, mysticism, death, and his role as a psychotherapist - his emphasis throughout on a curious openness to what is revealed through meditation practice. We discuss the problematic issues of control that spiritual groups face and finally take a look at how meditation and particularly zen practice relate to the problems of the world.